0:01

This is a CBC Podcast. Hi

0:09

there, I'm JP Tasker and this is the Power

0:11

and Politics podcast for Monday, August 12th. Ontario

0:14

has secured another multi-million dollar investment in

0:16

its auto industry, with a bit of

0:18

help from the federal and provincial governments.

0:21

We'll ask Ontario's Economic Development Minister Vic

0:23

Fidelli what it means for the electric

0:25

vehicle supply chain. And

0:27

Vice President Kamala Harris continues to build

0:29

momentum in the US presidential campaign, leading

0:32

Donald Trump in several swing states based

0:34

on new polling, coming up with what

0:36

the Trump campaign plans to do about it. Plus,

0:39

wildfire evacuees learn they can return to

0:41

Jasper this Friday, three weeks after they were

0:43

ordered to leave. We'll hear about

0:45

the mixed emotions residents are feeling. Goodyear

0:49

is investing more than half a billion

0:52

dollars to expand its tire plant in

0:54

southeastern Ontario and make more tires for

0:56

electric vehicles. The announcement secures 1,000 jobs,

0:58

including 200 new ones. It's

1:01

also backed by government support. The federal government is

1:04

kicking in up to $44.3 million. And

1:08

Ontario is providing up to $20 million. Here

1:10

is the Prime Minister speaking earlier from the plan. We

1:14

are making the right bet on the

1:17

future. We know that climate change is

1:19

real. We know that electric vehicles are

1:21

going to be essential for the future.

1:23

And the choices that we've made as

1:26

a government has ensured that Canada will

1:28

be part of it. Vic

1:31

Fidelli is the Ontario Minister of Economic Development, Job

1:33

Creation and Trade. And he joins me now. Welcome

1:35

back to the program, sir. Great

1:38

to be back, JP. Thank you. So

1:40

a sizeable announcement today, Minister, a nearly $600 million

1:43

cash injection into the Goodyear plant in eastern

1:46

Ontario. What does this mean for the province?

1:50

Well, it's exciting for, first of all, the

1:52

people of Greater Napanee, because there's 200

1:55

more jobs being created here. But

1:57

it really solidifies the investment for the thousands of

1:59

people. workers who are here as they

2:01

shift now to adding EV tires

2:04

that they will make here. It is

2:06

an exciting addition to Napani, it is

2:08

an exciting addition to the EV supply

2:10

chain we built in Ontario. A

2:13

thousand jobs will be saved or preserved as a result of

2:15

this announcement. 200 new highly

2:17

skilled manufacturing jobs also expected to be added by

2:19

2027. But it does come at a

2:22

bit of a cost to government.

2:24

I think it is about 20 million for

2:26

you folks in Ontario, 44 million from the

2:28

feds. Is there a possibility of

2:30

recouping that money if this project

2:32

doesn't go ahead? Because there has been a bit of a

2:35

track record in recent months

2:37

of some of the big projects, some

2:40

of the big EV projects stalling. Well, think about the process that

2:42

no company receives

2:44

any government money until actually long after the

2:47

employees are here working in a plant. So

2:49

there has been no money put into any

2:52

of the other ventures that have been announced.

2:54

As I mentioned, it has been a bit

2:56

of a bump erode for

2:58

some of the projects lately minister in the province of Ontario

3:00

Ford. Scraping its plans for an

3:02

EV project in Oakfield are

3:04

going ahead with building some gas powered pickup

3:07

trucks instead. General Motors delaying its

3:10

plan to produce EV parts

3:12

in St. Catherine's, Umicore

3:14

also suspending construction for now at

3:16

its multi-billion dollar plant in eastern

3:18

Ontario. It is not quite

3:20

panning out how you and others thought

3:23

it would. Are you concerned all this could fall

3:25

flat? Well,

3:28

we have got a $7 billion plant by

3:31

Volkswagen well underway in St.

3:33

Thomas. The LG

3:35

plant in Windsor is almost set to open. The

3:40

announcement in Honda and Allison was just made. They

3:42

are now breaking ground for the multi-billion

3:45

dollar separator plant for battery

3:48

components in Fort Colborne. We expect

3:50

to make an announcement in northern Ontario about lithium

3:52

hydrogen and the other plant that is in the

3:56

centre of its We've

4:00

now seen $44 billion

4:04

in new EV announcements

4:06

and new auto announcements in

4:09

Ontario in just four years. That's greater

4:11

than any single U.S. state. So we're

4:13

very confident. Look, there's going to be

4:15

bumps along the way. Cars

4:17

have been made the same way for more than 125 years. We've

4:21

got a 180-degree shift in how we make

4:23

a car and a battery and

4:26

no engine. So there's going to be hiccups

4:28

along the way, but we're very confident. All

4:30

the ones you mentioned, Ford, for instance,

4:33

is going to put 1,800 workers back

4:35

to work a year earlier. They're

4:37

adding $500 million in investment,

4:39

400 new parts

4:42

stamping jobs, 125 new jobs at

4:45

the engine plant in Windsor. We look at that

4:47

as being good news, as they do

4:49

plan to ramp that vehicle up into

4:51

electric. So little hiccups, but

4:54

there have been happy accidents along the

4:56

way. There's a reason I think why

4:58

Ford is going ahead with pickup trucks instead of EVs,

5:00

and their numbers are showing that

5:02

some of the EV sales have slowed a bit.

5:04

They were on a huge upward trajectory. Now we're

5:06

seeing a little bit of a dip.

5:08

It's a slight dip, but it is a dip in

5:11

terms of new EV registrations in this country. They were

5:13

actually down in the last half of last year, if

5:15

we're to believe some stats can data. Is

5:17

there a risk that this EV revolution

5:19

doesn't pan out? Is there a plan B

5:21

you're considering? Well,

5:24

we've got $44 billion. I

5:27

think the manufacturers are speaking for themselves, and

5:29

the majority of them are here, in

5:31

the ground. But think of the

5:34

alternative. When we took office from the

5:36

Liberal government of Ontario, they had gotten

5:38

out of manufacturing, and much like Australia,

5:40

who now don't make cars there, that's

5:42

where Ontario is headed. Premier

5:44

Ford decided, we're going to save the 100,000

5:47

workers who work in auto. The only way to do

5:49

that is to have a new product

5:51

for them, and that is the electric vehicle, because

5:53

every one of these companies announced their

5:55

next product would be EV, and zero

5:58

was planned for Canada. that

6:00

we lowered the cost of doing business in Ontario

6:02

by $8 billion a year, turned

6:04

the manufacturers around and said, we'll

6:07

give you a shot in Ontario. Once they

6:10

started coming here, it just snowballed into $44

6:12

billion. So

6:14

we know we've made the right moves. We see

6:16

the tens of thousands of people who are being

6:18

added to the 100,000 auto workers. There

6:22

was no alternative but to be all in

6:24

and that's the decision Premier Ford made. And

6:26

certainly it's turned out for many

6:29

of these communities to be the right decision. Minister,

6:31

as you know, the US is pressing

6:33

ahead with a tariff on Chinese EVs

6:35

to make the American EV industry more

6:37

viable. Conservative leader Pierre Poliev says Canada

6:39

should follow suit. Do something similar here,

6:41

the government, as it stands right

6:43

now, is kind of reviewing this issue. What's

6:45

your take? Should Canada slap tariffs on Chinese vehicles?

6:49

Oh, we absolutely have to match the US. There's

6:51

no question. I wrote to the Prime

6:54

Minister and his ministers and said, the

6:56

US is our largest trading partner. Think

6:59

of, we are

7:01

the third largest trading partner in the

7:03

US. It's Mexico first, China second and

7:05

Ontario, not Canada, Ontario being the third

7:08

largest trading partner. We've got to align

7:10

with them. You know, the competition from

7:12

China is coming over with low cost

7:14

wages, dirty energy. You can't compete with

7:17

a car like that. That's why the

7:19

states has recognized the same things

7:21

that we recognize. But

7:23

you know what some environmentalists say about that.

7:25

A big tariff on cheap EVs could be

7:27

detrimental to the country's climate goals. They say

7:30

it's better to get people into affordable electric

7:32

cars, whether they're made in Canada or China

7:34

or wherever. What do you say to people

7:36

who are pushing that sort of narrative, sir?

7:40

Well, anybody that's pushing that narrative just really

7:42

needs to look at how they're made so

7:45

cheaply. They're made because they have cheap

7:48

wages, no environmental controls, dirty

7:50

energy, energy made from coal. You know,

7:52

so you're going to be driving a

7:55

dirty vehicle to achieve a clean concept.

7:58

They don't line up. That's why we

8:00

need to match the US. That's

8:03

why we wrote to the federal government and

8:05

the ministers who suggested they've

8:07

got to completely align with our largest

8:10

trading partner, the US. Speaking

8:12

of the US, former President Trump is

8:14

quite hostile to the EVs, although he's

8:16

kind of softened his stance over the

8:18

last little while after he got the

8:20

endorsement of Tesla's Elon Musk. Trump

8:22

has still promised to do away with the Inflation

8:25

Reduction Act, which has spurred a

8:27

lot of EV manufacturing in the US, and

8:29

a lot of our policies here in Canada

8:31

are actually based on that regime. What

8:34

would a Trump victory mean for EV production here

8:36

in this country, Minister? Is that something that keeps

8:38

you up at night? Well,

8:41

we won't come

8:43

to any presumption of the results of

8:46

the election in November. We'll let the

8:48

US citizens judge that, and we'll be

8:50

ready to work with whatever government gets

8:52

elected. All right, let's leave it

8:55

there. Vivek Padeli is the Ontario Minister of Economic Development,

8:57

Job Creation and Trade. Appreciate you coming on, sir. Thanks,

9:01

JP. Prime

9:08

Minister Trudeau came out swinging against

9:10

the Conservatives' call for Canada to

9:12

match US tariffs on Chinese electric

9:14

vehicles, steel and aluminum, calling Pierre

9:17

Poliev's concerns about Canada's auto industry

9:19

baloney. It's a bit of a

9:21

joke that Poliev is

9:24

suddenly talking about workers in the auto industry.

9:26

They don't support it. They don't

9:28

believe in investing in Canadian workers.

9:32

So him to suddenly turn around and say, oh, we're

9:34

worried about EVs. That's baloney.

9:37

He's looking for a political angle because that's all he

9:39

does. It's time to

9:41

bring in the Monday power panel. Lisa Raide

9:44

is a former Conservative Cabinet Minister. Brad Levine

9:46

is a former Communications Director for the NDP.

9:48

And here with me, Vandana Kutter is a

9:50

former advisor to Prime Minister Trudeau. Hey, guys.

9:53

Hi. Hey, JP. So Lisa, the

9:56

Conservatives here, it's kind of an interesting play, right?

9:58

Because the Conservatives, I always historic. think of them

10:00

as the party of free trade. Now,

10:02

Paulie is calling for big tariffs

10:05

on Chinese EVs, which are essentially taxes

10:07

that could make these cheaper vehicles more

10:09

expensive for people here in the Canadian

10:11

market. Is this part of a protectionist

10:14

push by the Tories? We're seeing the

10:16

same sort of rhetoric south of the

10:18

border from folks like J.D. Vance. Is

10:20

this all about a rebrand? I

10:23

don't know if it's a rebrand. I think

10:25

it's a recognition that from the time we

10:28

are in government, the world has fundamentally changed.

10:30

And quite frankly, China has been subsidizing

10:32

aluminum, does subsidize steel, does subsidize their

10:35

automakers. And as a result, they have

10:37

a very competitive price on an EV,

10:39

which they love to flood into the

10:41

North American market. On the other hand,

10:44

you have Canada and the United States

10:46

that have made it really clear that

10:48

they're going to put in place policies

10:50

that are going to encourage the use

10:52

of EVs, either through regulation or through

10:55

incentives for builders. So the two are

10:57

actually working against one another. I think

10:59

it makes sense for the Conservatives to

11:01

come out and talk about a tariff.

11:03

I think that's something you already see

11:06

in the United States. So you want

11:08

to match up with your biggest trading

11:10

partner. I find it funny,

11:13

I guess, to watch the Prime Minister get

11:15

so riled up on this. They had ample

11:17

opportunity to come out with their own tariffs

11:20

and they haven't. So now I guess they're

11:22

going to be looking like they're copying the

11:24

opposition on a policy and they don't quite

11:27

like it. Well, you heard that

11:29

clip, Lisa, that Trudeau thinks it's a bit

11:31

of a joke, right, that Polyev now suddenly

11:33

cares about EV workers when he's been wishy-washy

11:35

on all of the deals that have actually

11:37

been signed that give workers the jobs and

11:39

that brings all these investment dollars into the

11:42

country. Is Trudeau not right to

11:44

call him out? Like he's feigning interest in

11:46

this and yet he's been against many of

11:48

these deals. I think

11:50

this is a case where you see the

11:52

disconnect between Trudeau and what's happening in Canada

11:55

with regular folks. So what Pierre is responding

11:57

to is what he's hearing. He's hearing from

11:59

union rallies and when he's hearing from union

12:01

workers, when they talk about the cost of

12:04

living, when they talk about their worry of

12:06

their job, when they talk about the fact

12:08

that things are harder now and they ask

12:10

him for something like a tariff on EVs

12:13

so that Canadian companies are going to be

12:15

competitive and that they're not going to be

12:17

on a disadvantage when it comes to competition.

12:19

Trudeau on the other hand is,

12:21

he's not really thinking about the worker. He's thinking

12:24

about it in a different kind of way, I

12:27

suppose. The reality is that if you talk

12:29

to somebody who is an auto worker, they're

12:31

going to tell you that they're worried about

12:33

the cost of living, they're going to tell

12:35

you that they're worried about their future of

12:37

their job and the response from a government

12:40

to say, well, you should be so lucky

12:42

we're investing in all these plants. That doesn't

12:44

really help them in the immediacy and I

12:46

think this is a concrete move by Pierre

12:48

to say what they would do in order

12:50

to ensure that there's a market for Canadian-made

12:53

products and it kind of fits with what

12:55

he's been saying all along. Little off base,

12:57

I think the Prime Minister looks like he's

12:59

a little bit desperate right now.

13:02

Vonda, what do you make of ... Sorry, Lisa.

13:04

Vonda, what do you make of, first

13:07

of all, poly of sort of fainting interest in

13:09

this file when he hasn't really been all interested

13:11

in EVs but also the Prime Minister and the

13:13

Premier sort of patting themselves in the back for

13:15

these deals. But we know that it

13:17

hasn't been all rosy, right? It hasn't been

13:19

all sunshine and roses for the EV market

13:21

for scrapping its plans in Oakville. They're going

13:23

ahead with pickup trucks, gas-powered

13:26

pickup trucks instead, General Motors styling

13:28

back its plans to produce EV

13:30

parts in St. Catherine's, Umicore, a

13:32

big outfit here in Eastern Ontario.

13:35

They're pausing construction of a major

13:37

project. So it hasn't gone super

13:39

smoothly. I mean, is there

13:41

a risk that all of these billions of

13:43

dollars that are potentially being invested, taxpayer money,

13:46

could these become white elephants? Could it become a

13:48

political risk for the government to be so heavily

13:50

invested in a sector that's kind of on shaky

13:52

ground? I think it's all about the future

13:54

of the green economy. And I think we have to recognize that

13:58

we are changing as an economy. People are looking to... to

14:00

meet net zero. We've seen a summer

14:02

of climate incidents that are not usual

14:04

and we have to get there. At

14:07

the same time with EVs and anything to do

14:09

with the green economy, in the beginning, it could

14:11

be expensive, but it's a good investment that will

14:13

be good for middle class jobs, high paying jobs,

14:15

but also spin off jobs in these sectors. So

14:18

I think we've seen a resurrection. I mean, we've

14:20

seen what happened in the auto sector in the

14:22

early 2000s and what's happening now. I like to

14:24

see more of these happening and I like how

14:27

it's happening in places that's not Toronto. That's in

14:29

Windsor, that is in places like Napani

14:31

where spin off jobs are gonna be also

14:33

equally important. So I think that's part of

14:35

looking for the future of like, what is

14:37

the plan for Canada? And I think it's

14:39

easy and a little simplistic to just parrot

14:41

what the US does. The government is doing

14:43

what's responsible. There's a consultation happening. We're gonna

14:45

get the results of this consultation because there's

14:47

a number of things to factor into this,

14:49

whether it is, you know, terrorists traditionally, they

14:51

don't help the middle class. You know, EVs

14:53

are still a little expensive for people and

14:55

it's hard for someone who maybe is looking

14:57

for a price and they wanna

15:00

buy it. It'll be cheaper for them in the long

15:02

run. I've heard that so many times where people just,

15:04

oh, just buy it, it'll be fine. You know, you'll

15:06

be save a lot on gas. But that initial investment

15:08

is tough. So we have to think about what will

15:10

help the middle class and make sure

15:12

they can achieve this. What also creates

15:15

the conditions to create a strong economy

15:17

that is innovative, competitive, that draws more

15:19

jobs. But also, could we face

15:21

retaliatory tariffs that can affect Canadian industries and other

15:23

places? And those are all things to consider. So

15:25

I think the government is doing the right thing,

15:28

having a consultation with the right

15:30

people who can advise on this and I'm sure we'll hear

15:32

the results soonly. Brad, speaking

15:35

of EVs, I was looking at StatsCan data

15:37

today and it shows that actually the number

15:39

of new EV car registrations was down late

15:41

last year. There's been just like a massive

15:43

surge over the last number of years and

15:45

now it's kind of plateaued, it's slumped a

15:47

little bit. It's not quite where a lot

15:49

of the car manufacturers wanted to see it

15:52

be. And yet we're still

15:54

going ahead with major multimillion dollar investments

15:56

from the federal and provincial governments into

15:58

these major manufacturing projects. projects, do

16:01

you think that's still the right call given

16:03

what we know about buyers being a little

16:05

skeptical of EVs still in some places? Well,

16:08

yeah, we have to kind of isolate and

16:11

figure out what's leading to that skepticism.

16:13

Is it the technology? Is it the quality of

16:16

the vehicles? Or is it a cost of living

16:18

crisis that we're going through? All things are expensive.

16:20

Canadians are having a hard time making ends meet.

16:23

And when you've got new vehicle

16:25

purchase consideration, you

16:27

know, EVs on average

16:30

are much more expensive

16:32

than non-electric battery powered

16:35

cars, up to $20,000 more expensive. The

16:39

thing I think that the policymakers

16:41

need to consider here is

16:44

the direction of the automobile industry

16:47

going to go into cleaner technology.

16:50

No question they are. We

16:52

have mandates and there is clear signals

16:55

from the marketplace, both from the consumer

16:57

as well as from the manufacturers. And

16:59

maybe some of them are going to

17:01

be tweaking their manufacturing game plans. It's

17:03

still the overall direction in which the

17:06

global automobile market is going, whether

17:08

it's EV or other clean technologies.

17:10

There are two things that

17:12

need to happen. One, Canada needs to be, if

17:14

we want these high paying jobs in the automobile

17:17

sector, we're going to need to

17:19

create incentives for those technologies to

17:21

be produced, manufactured here in Canada.

17:24

And the federal government and the

17:26

government of Ontario are doing that.

17:28

We've seen billions of dollars being

17:30

announced. The second thing that needs

17:32

to happen is that the federal

17:34

government needs to protect those investments

17:36

by ensuring that countries like China

17:38

don't flood the Canadian market with

17:40

cheaper cleaner

17:43

vehicles. Right now we have a 6% tariff.

17:46

Clearly the United States and Europe

17:48

are going with much higher tariffs.

17:50

And we have subsidies. Now the

17:52

only subsidy that Chinese manufactured EVs

17:54

are eligible for are Teslas that

17:56

are made in Shanghai. Should

17:58

we be subsidizing? Elon Musk's

18:01

vehicles that are coming into Canada that are

18:03

produced in China. I think that's something that

18:05

the federal government, they had 30 days, we're

18:07

well past that now, but we're going to

18:10

have to get more muscular and meet our

18:13

allies in the States and in Europe with

18:15

higher tariffs on Chinese products, and we're going

18:17

to have to, I think, revisit whether or

18:19

not we should be subsidizing individual Chinese vehicles

18:21

that are purchased by Canadians. I want to

18:23

squeeze in another topic if I can, so

18:25

we're going to do a quick go-round on

18:28

this. I want to show you another exchange

18:30

from the press conference earlier today with the

18:32

Prime Minister. My colleague Raffi Bujikanian asked the

18:34

PM whether he is considering any changes to

18:36

his Cabinet or close advisors given that bad

18:38

by-election loss in Toronto, St. Paul's earlier this

18:40

summer. Have a listen. Since

18:43

June's by-election loss in Toronto, many in

18:45

your caucus have called for change, whether

18:47

that's to party leadership or to your

18:49

senior staff or perhaps the caucus. You've

18:52

had some time to think about this. Can

18:54

you tell me whether you're planning on implementing

18:57

any changes? One of the things that we've

18:59

been focused on, not just over the past

19:01

few weeks, but over the past many years,

19:04

is making sure we're investing

19:06

in Canadians. This announcement today is

19:08

a great example of how, from

19:11

local MPs to ministers, we've all

19:13

been working together. Bit

19:16

of a non-answer there, a little generic in terms

19:18

of whether he's planning anything different. I mean, we're

19:20

six weeks out from the by-election. I know it's the

19:23

summer people have dialed it back a bit. They're

19:25

not necessarily focused on making big announcements about what's

19:27

the common changes and yada, yada. But there's been a

19:29

lot of pushback. A lot of people in caucus want

19:31

some sort of change, and we haven't really seen

19:33

anything yet. What do you make of his answer

19:35

there, and do you expect we'll see something different? I

19:37

wouldn't read into that. I think that's like what he's

19:40

doing right now is what a prime minister should be

19:42

doing. I think, you know, when I left government,

19:44

I don't think the riding president of Abbotsford was

19:46

worried where I was going. I think, you know, for

19:48

most Canadians, they just want to know, does my government

19:50

operate? Does it advocate for me? Is it delivering

19:52

on housing? Is it delivering on healthcare? Is it

19:54

delivering on the cost of living crisis, etc. I

19:57

don't think they care, but the nitty gritty changes to

19:59

the prime minister's office. I'm sure those conversations are still

20:02

happening and I'm sure at some point it may be

20:04

something external facing and maybe something internal

20:06

facing that will be discussed at a caucus but

20:08

I'm sure changes are being made that are still

20:10

being discussed but I wouldn't read too much in the

20:13

PM's answer today. Another day, another poll

20:15

and this one from Abacus shows the

20:17

conservatives, they are still up 20 points. A

20:20

lot of people are not happy with the prime minister

20:22

and it doesn't seem based on that answer.

20:26

He went on to say he is excited to

20:28

get to work. I think if I were a

20:30

cabinet minister in Trudeau's government right now I wouldn't

20:33

have been comforted by what he said. Quite frankly he

20:35

had an opportunity to kill the story

20:37

and an opportunity to kill that line of questioning for

20:40

the foreseeable future, at least

20:42

until they go back on September 16th. He chose not to. He

20:45

evaded the question so therefore he is keeping the

20:47

option open. That's how I read that. Brad,

20:50

you know, saying when asked if there is going to

20:52

be any changes coming, he is saying that

20:55

they are investing in Canadians. He is getting

20:57

to this announcement today. He is

20:59

trying to avoid the issue at hand. Sort

21:02

of dismissive really, I guess, of calls

21:04

for change at least at this point. Do you expect

21:06

it will be status quo or do you think we

21:08

can expect some changes? It must

21:10

be something planned right before the cabinet retreat

21:12

later this month? One

21:15

of two things. Cabinet shuffle before the La

21:17

Salle-Mard Verdun by-election. If he is going to

21:19

do a cabinet shuffle and that's

21:21

it, it has to be a substantial one including

21:24

the key exit of the campaign. The

21:26

key economic ministers including finance. If

21:29

he loses La Salle-Mard, it is going to be very

21:31

difficult ride for him in the fall with

21:33

caucus to see whether or not they want

21:35

him to stay on at all.

21:38

I can't imagine him losing both Toronto, St.

21:41

Paul and La Salle-Mard back to back and staying on

21:44

to say I will take this party into the next

21:46

election. Can't see it happening. Just

21:49

really quickly, Brad, 20 seconds. What do

21:51

you think about that by-election? Are

21:53

you expecting a good result for the NDP? 20

21:55

seconds. Craig Chauvet is

21:57

a fantastic candidate for the NDP. it's

22:00

a great coup, but I

22:02

always like to under-promise, over-deliver,

22:05

but things

22:07

are feeling good for Craig, Sauvé

22:09

and La Salle-Aimard, and if

22:11

the Liberals don't do well in either of

22:13

those two by-elections, I can't see Trudeau having

22:15

a credible position

22:18

to take the party into the next election. Yeah,

22:20

okay, let's leave it there. Thank you so much

22:23

to the Monday Power Panel, Lisa Raitt, Brad Levine

22:25

and Vandana Katter. I appreciate you guys coming on,

22:27

smart thoughts as always. Vice

22:35

President Kamala Harris appears to be gaining an

22:37

edge on Donald Trump in the U.S. presidential

22:40

race. New polling suggests she has shifted the

22:42

momentum in favor of the Democrats just three

22:44

weeks after launching her campaign. CBC's

22:46

Ashley Burke joins me now from Washington.

22:48

Hi Ashley. Hi JP.

22:51

So looking specifically at the swing states,

22:53

Ashley, what are you seeing? Well,

22:56

JP, a series of polls show

22:58

Donald Trump's lead is diminishing, including

23:00

in three key swing states. New

23:02

surveys by New York Times and

23:04

Siena College suggest Kamala Harris is

23:06

now ahead by four points in

23:08

Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan. This

23:11

pollster and communications strategist says if

23:13

the election were today, Harris would

23:15

defeat Trump. Take a listen. She

23:18

would win. And I want to

23:20

emphasize, it's not just about momentum. It's

23:23

also about passion. It's about commitment.

23:25

Harris voters are even more eager

23:27

to vote for her than Donald

23:29

Trump voters are to him. He's

23:32

not seen that in the entire

23:34

campaign. What

23:37

he says is resonating with focus groups is

23:39

what he calls Harris's absence of meanness.

23:41

He said, sure, she's got energy that

23:43

she's enjoying on the campaign trail and that

23:45

helps, but those focus groups suggest that

23:47

some people are sick of the attack lines.

23:50

He says that they're hearing from Trump,

23:52

who has been making all sorts of

23:54

claims to see what sticks against Harris, as

23:56

his campaign really struggles to define her

23:58

and effectively slow her down. Any

24:00

indication that the Trump campaign is rethinking its

24:02

strategy given these polling numbers? Well,

24:05

Trump's team has been knocked off kilter ever

24:07

since Harris took over the Democratic ticket. Trump

24:10

planned to take on 81-year-old Joe Biden

24:12

and argue that he was not mentally fit for

24:14

the job. Now he's up against

24:16

a much younger Harris who is fresh off

24:19

of campaign blitz to battleground states where she

24:21

saw big crowds. Now Trump has

24:23

returned to the campaign trail himself. He

24:25

was in Montana on Friday, and over

24:27

the weekend he doubled. His campaign doubled

24:29

their ad buys, escalating his paid messaging

24:31

by another $37 million, including

24:35

putting some of that money in battleground

24:37

states like Pennsylvania where that poll suggests

24:39

that Harris is now in the lead.

24:42

Let's talk about crowd sizes. That's something Trump has

24:44

been talking a lot about lately. He's always been

24:46

talking about crowd sizes, but he's talking about it

24:48

again, and he's making even more claims. Tell us

24:50

about that. Yeah, he's claiming

24:52

that no one has ever seen

24:55

bigger crowds than him in history,

24:57

even falsely suggesting last week that

24:59

during his January 6 speech, before

25:01

demonstrators later stormed the Capitol, that

25:04

he had a bigger crowd than when Martin

25:06

Luther King gave his historic I Have a

25:08

Dream speech, which is false.

25:11

Then on Sunday he took to

25:13

social media with another implausible claim,

25:15

saying Harris' campaign used artificial intelligence

25:18

to manufacture the crowd in the

25:20

background of a recent rally photo,

25:22

which the campaign has said is not the case.

25:24

There were also journalists there on the ground and

25:26

video that shows a crowd did exist there. Former

25:29

Speaker of the House, Republican Kevin McCarthy

25:31

told Fox News Today that Trump's obsession

25:33

with crowds has got to stop. It's

25:37

going to be a race and you've got to make

25:39

this race, not on personalities. Stop

25:41

questioning the size of her crowds and start

25:43

questioning her position when it comes to what

25:45

did she do as attorney general on crime.

25:48

Question what did she do when she's supposed to take care of the

25:50

border as a czar. We

25:53

also saw Trump returned to Ex Today, formerly

25:55

known as Twitter, where he was once banned.

25:57

He posted a series of photos within

25:59

a span. of videos within a span

26:01

of hours, one of them resembles a

26:03

Hollywood movie trailer featuring him as the

26:06

hero and the only one who can

26:08

against the odds return to the White

26:10

House and save America. He's

26:13

also going live tonight with one of

26:15

his friendliest donors, billionaire Elon Musk, who

26:17

owns X on an interview there, and

26:19

he posted another ad online, but this

26:21

one he's calling for more volunteers as

26:24

he tries to revive his campaign. JP.

26:27

Thank you. The CBC is Ashley Burke in

26:29

Washington for us tonight. Thanks Ashley. The

26:32

federal government is in search of a new human

26:34

rights commissioner. Bierju

26:36

Dutani resigned today before he even

26:39

started in the job. Jewish groups

26:41

have accused Dutani of anti-Semitic social

26:43

media posts. The allegations led to

26:45

an investigation and the report has

26:47

just been released. The CBC's David

26:49

Thurton joins me now for more.

26:51

David, it's been a rocky road

26:53

for Bierju Dutani since he was appointed. How did

26:55

we get here? Yeah, so

26:57

Bierju Dutani was the first Muslim

27:00

man to head the Canadian

27:02

Human Rights Commission. That was a

27:04

historic appointment, JP, especially after

27:07

this commission has faced allegations of

27:09

anti-black racism and also the

27:11

way one of its commissioners treated its

27:13

employees, as my colleague Ashley Burke has

27:15

also reported. But soon after

27:18

Dutani's appointment in June, there

27:20

were concerns about whether or not

27:22

he was a suitable candidate for

27:24

this job. And those concerns were

27:26

being raised by conservatives, Jewish

27:28

groups as well. They

27:31

were flagging comments that he made online

27:33

on social media that they say it

27:35

said were anti-Semitic. Just to

27:37

give you an example of

27:39

some of those complaints, they

27:41

flagged that he shared the

27:43

stage in 2015 with an

27:45

Islamic fundamentalist group while he

27:47

was abroad at

27:49

university. Dutani said he was

27:51

unaware about the panelists that

27:54

would be joining him. Justice

27:56

Minister Arif Irani, though, was

27:58

concerned about these allegations. said

28:00

that they were potentially troubling

28:02

and he commissioned this independent

28:04

review which examined more than

28:06

a dozen allegations against him

28:08

and those findings now public

28:10

today did not find any

28:12

evidence that D'Toni held any

28:14

anti-Semitic beliefs but the report

28:16

did find that he wasn't

28:19

forthcoming during the interview

28:21

process during the vetting process he

28:24

did not disclose a middle name that

28:26

he had used during his time at

28:28

university that name was Mujahid

28:30

and that alias was used

28:32

to post controversial comments about

28:34

the state of Israel online

28:36

we know that though

28:39

he did disclose this alias at the

28:41

end of the vetting process but not

28:43

during the early stages which the report

28:45

that was released today flagged.

28:48

So too many red flags for somebody

28:51

at least and now he's resigned what is

28:53

the reaction that we're seeing today to this

28:55

announcement? Well we are seeing reaction from those

28:57

Jewish groups but I'll start with the conservatives.

29:00

Deputy leader Melissa Lanceman said on social media

29:02

today that she welcomed this

29:04

announcement she said that a bit

29:06

tongue-in-cheek but she said it

29:08

was one that was made way too late

29:11

the Center for Israel and Jewish Affairs has

29:14

been calling on D'Toni's to resign

29:16

for some time even

29:19

though his statements were not found

29:21

to be anti-Semitic it says transparency

29:23

is of utmost importance especially when

29:25

you're trying to become

29:27

the head of the Canadian Human Rights Commission

29:29

so have a listen to what they had to say. This

29:32

position is so important that the

29:34

person occupies that position that needs to

29:37

be fully trustworthy and the

29:39

fact that according to the

29:41

investigators he was not entirely forthcoming

29:45

regarding the use of his names or

29:47

even periods of an unemployment that he

29:49

had this should have

29:51

been this should have been said at the

29:53

very outset the

29:57

OSAS should be rigorous

30:00

and it raises to us

30:02

fundamental questions as to the

30:04

vetting process. So

30:07

we are hearing from Dutani today.

30:09

He issued a post on LinkedIn

30:11

not just announcing his resignation, but

30:13

he attached this long PDF where

30:15

he said that he couldn't

30:18

have been more transparent about his

30:21

aliases and all the

30:23

other things that are associated with

30:25

the vetting process. We're also hearing from

30:27

some of his supporters. The National Council

30:29

for Canadian Muslims says they are disappointed

30:33

that a racialized man has had to go

30:35

through these attacks that turned

30:37

out, they said, to be unfounded. They

30:39

said it demonstrates that it's fine to

30:41

drag every appointee through the mud as

30:44

long as they are brown and Muslim. Okay.

30:46

Thank you. The CBC's David Thurton. Thanks for that

30:49

report. Anytime. Jasper

30:54

residents can make their way back to town

30:56

as of Friday. For most, this will be

30:59

their first look at the conditions of their

31:01

homes, businesses and lost property. The

31:04

north end of town is more likely to be habitable

31:06

sooner, but you also can't count on that. As

31:09

in, no one has been inside your house yet.

31:11

There could be smoke damage, there could be water

31:13

damage, depending if you left windows open or what

31:15

the status of the property was when you left.

31:18

We understand our residents concern, as

31:20

I said earlier, for

31:22

time and space to confront

31:25

the reality and start the

31:28

difficult process to

31:30

accommodate a new norm. The

31:33

return home doesn't mean all residents will

31:35

actually be able to spend the night.

31:37

Returning residents are being told to prepare

31:40

to be as self-sufficient as possible. Water,

31:42

power and fuel services to damaged areas

31:44

are still spotty. Friday's return

31:46

represents the beginning for most to survey the

31:48

extent of damage and plan their next steps.

31:51

Justin Melnick is one of those residents he

31:54

and his family evacuated to BC when the

31:56

fire first broke out. Thanks for coming on,

31:58

Justin. Thanks for

32:00

having me. So as I was just saying,

32:02

it's just been announced all residents will be allowed

32:04

back to Jasper as of Friday at 7am. How

32:07

do you feel hearing that sort of news and do you plan

32:09

to go back as soon as you can? It's

32:13

exciting that we have

32:15

a timeline on when we can get back in there for some

32:17

people, assess the damage

32:20

and see what the state of everyone's

32:22

homes or businesses are in. Personally,

32:25

for me, with some young

32:27

children and my family, we are

32:29

going to hold off just being

32:31

self-sufficient and wouldn't be in

32:34

the cards for us without having

32:36

power or potentially gas or heat

32:39

in the house. So we're going to wait until

32:41

our confirmation of that, just

32:44

knowing where our house is situated in

32:46

the town. It's quite a lot of

32:48

extensive damage, so we're waiting to see what that

32:50

looks like going forward. As you

32:52

say, the conditions are apparently still quite primitive,

32:54

water, power, fuel, it's all a bit questionable.

32:56

What have they told you about

32:59

what you could face when you do make it back to Jasper?

33:03

We know the municipality and the first

33:05

responders have done a great job in

33:07

communicating with Parks Canada as well. So

33:09

the municipality of Jasper has a map

33:11

with quite detailed photos that is available.

33:14

So we're able to see what properties

33:16

are damaged, what properties are not damaged,

33:19

and then go from there and

33:21

see. I

33:24

don't know if certain areas have power or

33:26

not, we haven't been made aware of that. We

33:29

do have some people that you do know. Jasper

33:31

is a large volunteer fire department, or sorry, small

33:33

volunteer fire department that is doing a big job.

33:37

They just kind of wait and see what

33:40

information you can get from some people that way too. So

33:42

you live on the hard hit west side

33:45

of town, but I understand your home is

33:47

still standing. What do you know about the

33:49

condition of where you live? Yeah,

33:52

we were fortunate. Our house is still standing.

33:54

My parents lost their house, which wasn't far

33:56

away. So

33:59

we know our house is still standing. We haven't been

34:01

in it. Don't know if there's smoke damage, water damage,

34:03

anything like that. What

34:06

state of the refrigerators are probably not

34:08

great inside. So we're

34:11

waiting just personally without

34:13

having all the

34:15

services back. I don't think it's

34:17

a great situation for a young family to be

34:19

there. But I totally understand if residents also want

34:21

to get back and see the

34:24

state or maybe some people are able to choose

34:27

their own adventure and be part of that

34:30

first group back to Jasper. I

34:32

can appreciate that side of it too and people just

34:34

want to get back and see what they're facing. I

34:38

wouldn't judge anyone that wants to go back. I think if I

34:40

was in a different situation, I might. If

34:42

I was by myself, I would probably do it. No,

34:46

I totally understand. Just describe

34:48

for our audience what the last three likes

34:51

been like for you. I imagine it's been incredibly difficult

34:53

uprooting your life like that. Tell the viewers what you've

34:56

been through. Yeah,

34:58

so on the night that

35:00

the evacuation happened, the alert

35:02

went out not

35:04

long after I got home from work. So I just

35:06

went and filled up both vehicles quickly. My

35:08

wife then had to

35:10

go to the wastewater plant where she's an employee. On

35:14

her way back, she ended up going up to Patricia

35:16

Lake bungalows and grabbing

35:18

two of our friends' children

35:20

as one of the partners

35:22

was the resort operations manager. So she

35:25

was trying to get all the guests out of the

35:27

resort. So we threw four kids

35:29

in one minivan and I took

35:31

our pets in the other vehicle and we

35:34

made our way out of town. It didn't go that quickly

35:36

once the evacuation order went out as there's a lot of

35:38

people in Jasper, but it wasn't unruly

35:40

or anything. Everyone was patient and made

35:42

our way down the highway to BC. So we got to

35:44

Vailmont. It was three or four in the morning,

35:46

slept for a few hours and then drove on to Kelowna and

35:49

that family that we grabbed their kids, we met up

35:51

with them, the

35:53

dad on the highway and then the mom met us in

35:56

Vailmont. And then we've kind of

35:58

been the group of four of us. the

36:00

four kids have traveled around and found

36:02

a spot here in Blind Bay, BC. The

36:05

community has been really welcoming and a few other Jasper

36:08

residents have landed here as well. They

36:10

went through it a year ago, so they kind

36:13

of understand, or they definitely understand what

36:15

we're going through. And the community

36:17

has been great in helping find bikes for the

36:19

kids and just helping keep everyone entertained. And yeah,

36:21

it's been, we're very fortunate to

36:23

land where we did, but still

36:26

an interesting dynamic for sure. I just want to tell

36:28

our audience, you're seeing pictures there on the screen,

36:31

some photos of Justin's kids and another family's

36:33

kids who were, as he's describing to us,

36:35

they're evacuated to BC. At least they found

36:37

some bikes for them. You

36:39

know, you're the general manager as well of

36:42

the Jasper Brewing Company. I

36:44

expect it will take a while to

36:46

get that business, you know, ramping it

36:48

up, getting it back in business, given

36:51

all that your community has faced and all

36:53

the trauma. Are you thinking about business right

36:55

now? Where do you go from here when

36:57

it comes to the Jasper Brewing Company? Yeah,

37:01

we're thinking about business. We want to be,

37:04

Jasper is going to rebuild and Jasper is going to

37:06

move forward. So being the business community needs to prepare

37:09

for that as well. Being

37:11

a world-renowned tourist destination, we want to be

37:13

able to welcome people back as quickly and

37:15

safely as possible. For

37:17

us, we know that the building

37:19

has damage. We haven't been able to get in and get

37:21

an assessment yet of what that looks like. We

37:24

do have another restaurant that was set to

37:26

open the day after we got evacuated, Moline

37:29

Range distilling. So hopefully that building is not

37:31

too much damage. We can get that one up and running very

37:34

quickly because there's going to be people

37:36

in town that are going to need

37:38

support for meals and contractors and rebuilding

37:41

Jasper is going to be a big task. So there will be

37:43

people in and out of the community. So we want to be

37:45

there to support them in any way we can as a

37:48

place for them to go eat as well. You're

37:50

mentioning tourists. It's such

37:52

a much loved place among so many Canadians. So

37:54

many people pass through there every year. The

37:57

actual community is quite small. looking

38:00

it up today it's about what five five

38:02

thousand people so I imagine it's a pretty

38:04

close-knit place you know

38:06

what are you gonna do you're gonna band

38:08

together to try and rebuild like what are

38:10

you hearing from family and friends about trying

38:12

to restore this special place yeah

38:15

I think I haven't really heard too many

38:17

people say they're moving or giving up on Jasper so I

38:19

think that's one one

38:22

piece and mayor Ireland's been a testament of

38:24

just strength and what he's gone through I

38:26

think he's done an amazing job as

38:29

our mayor and he'll be I think the best person

38:31

to lead us forward and rebuild

38:33

Jasper and I know lots of people are talking

38:35

about you know families moving in with other families

38:37

or families taking in grandparents or

38:39

vice versa the grandparents taking in families

38:41

to be able to to move forward

38:43

as a community and and rebuild and

38:47

that's all we can do so well

38:49

Justin thank you for coming on I hope people

38:51

at home remember that name Jasper Brewing Company the

38:53

next time you're in that area folks you should

38:55

visit that spot because the community is gonna need

38:57

help from tourists when it's safe to return thank

38:59

you again Justin appreciate you coming on awesome

39:02

well thank you very much for having me federal

39:04

ministers gave an update today on the 2024 wildfire

39:07

forecast so far and what provinces can

39:09

expect in the coming months nationally

39:12

to date there are now 474

39:15

active wildfires burning over 3.4 million

39:17

hectares have burned so far this is

39:20

about an average for our fire season but

39:22

of course the season is not over yet

39:25

it is not unusual for Western

39:27

Canada to see high levels of

39:29

fire activity this time of year

39:31

however forecasting active anticipates that activity

39:33

will be above average in parts

39:35

of the West to well above

39:37

average in areas in BC and

39:39

Alberta ministers also reminded

39:41

residents in at-risk areas to take measures

39:43

to mitigate fire concerns and to have

39:46

gold bags ready in case of an

39:48

emergency That's

40:01

it for today. If you liked this episode,

40:03

please follow the pod and catch our next

40:05

live show on CBC News Network. We're on

40:07

weekdays at 5pm Eastern. I'm JP Tasker, thanks

40:09

for listening. For

40:53

more CBC Podcasts, go

40:55

to cbc.ca/ podcasts.