0:00

You know him. You love him.

0:02

Christine and Em from and that's

0:04

why we drink our back on

0:06

the paranormal podcast podcast superstars up

0:08

next. This

0:23

is the paranormal podcast with Jim

0:26

Harold. Welcome to the paranormal

0:28

podcast. I am Jim Harold almost so

0:30

excited. I almost forgot who I was

0:32

for a minute because We

0:35

have international superstars with us today. I'm

0:38

talking about Christine and Em from

0:40

and that's why we Drink

0:43

now they have mastered Podcasting

0:45

they have one of the

0:47

most highly rated most popular

0:49

podcasts in the world They

0:52

have mastered the stage They

0:55

go to these nationwide sellout tours

0:58

people love them people weep people

1:00

come they enjoy and and

1:04

how That

1:06

wasn't enough they have conquered

1:08

the world of book publishing They are

1:10

New York Times bestsellers and they've come

1:12

out with the second book a

1:15

haunted Road Atlas next stop

1:18

More chilling and gruesome tales from and

1:20

that's why we drink Christine and Em

1:23

Thank you for joining us today on

1:25

the paranormal podcast. I Think

1:27

I just died and went to heaven having yeah,

1:29

we're delighted We'd

1:32

like to take that intro and maybe put it in front

1:35

of all our episodes just so people Well,

1:38

you guys have done great I mean I am just

1:41

hats off to you for everything that you've done I'd

1:43

be I'd be remiss not to mention that

1:46

you were the first podcast both of us

1:48

listened to and you were the podcast yours

1:50

Actually was campfire. I listened to paranormal podcast

1:52

as well But I showed em campfire and

1:54

I was like we should try that so

1:57

yeah, you're the reason we do I

2:00

mean, it kind of worked out, didn't it? You're

2:02

on me. We truly, you're

2:05

the reason we have careers. So thank you so

2:07

much. That is awesome.

2:09

That is awesome. Well, welcome back to

2:11

the show. Now, there

2:13

may be one or two people out there

2:16

who have not been able to listen to,

2:18

and that's why we drink. So just in

2:20

case there are the one or two people

2:22

out there, explain what the show

2:24

is. And really, I got to say, and

2:26

this is with all due respect to other

2:28

similar podcasts out there, I

2:30

see so many people copying your concept.

2:33

I mean, it's just like, oh my

2:35

God, it's like, okay, there's the latest.

2:37

And that's why we drink clone. So

2:41

anyway, but I, hey, having

2:43

been there, I get

2:45

it. It's, you know,

2:47

I've seen people do the paranormal. I mean,

2:49

there's a million paranormal interview shows now, which,

2:51

hey, Coast to Coast AM was doing this

2:53

way before I was. Right. Fair point. And

2:56

then I've seen people do

2:58

that with my shows. And since your

3:00

show is so successful, I've seen a

3:03

lot more people doing that with your

3:05

shows. But regardless, that's neither here nor

3:07

there. Tell us about

3:09

it. And that's why we drink. What was the

3:11

concept when you started? How has it evolved? And

3:13

what is the concept? And why do you think

3:15

it's so popular? Well,

3:18

do you want to tell our love story or at

3:20

least the part of it

3:22

that led to the podcast? Yes.

3:25

So to make a

3:28

long story long, we

3:31

first met in grad school and we

3:33

ended up we didn't really know

3:35

each other all that well. When we were

3:37

in grad school, we didn't get to know each other

3:39

until we ended up both moving out to Los Angeles

3:42

and neither of us had really any friends out

3:44

here yet. And so we decided

3:46

that we were just going to band together and

3:48

just truly by knowing of each other, we were

3:51

just going to make friendship work because we were

3:53

desperate enough for that. And

3:55

on our first hangout, we went

3:57

to a hall fall.

4:00

festival, what's wrong with me, a harvest festival. And

4:03

we were sitting on a tractor train, on

4:05

a tractor ride through the haystacks, and we

4:07

were talking about all things spooky and Halloween

4:10

themed. And very quickly, Christine

4:12

asked if I listened to any podcasts. And

4:15

I said, what's a podcast? So Christine taught me all

4:17

about them. What? I said, let me

4:19

tell you about Jim Harold. Within

4:21

the next two breaths, she said, let me

4:23

tell you about Jim Harold, and suggested different

4:26

paranormal podcasts to listen to, different true crime

4:28

podcasts to listen to. And it very quickly

4:30

became the thing we always talked about when

4:32

we would hang out. And within

4:34

a few months of just getting to know

4:36

each other, I suggested kind of off the

4:38

cuff that we try a podcast together. And

4:42

because it was all we ever talked about anyway, we decided

4:44

to just go with true crime and paranormal. So I'll

4:47

let Christine explain what our podcast is then.

4:49

Oh, sure. So the podcast itself

4:51

is every week, the concept is every week, Em

4:53

and I both come to the table with a

4:56

story and brings a paranormal story. I bring a

4:58

true crime story. Em

5:00

was a paranormal investigator in the past as a

5:02

job. I worked at a private

5:04

investigations company. It just seemed to work. And

5:08

at first our podcast, Fun Fact,

5:10

this is kind of a, it's

5:12

an open secret, but our

5:14

original name for the podcast was actually

5:16

Eerie and Theory, because we thought, okay,

5:18

you know, it rhymes. There's the spooky

5:20

stuff. Then there's the like more hard

5:22

hitting facts. And we just kind of felt

5:24

like something was off when we were making

5:27

all the plans and we were frustrated. And at

5:29

one point Em just threw up their hands and

5:31

said, that's why I drink. And we had this

5:33

long pause and realized, you know what? That might

5:35

just sum up the whole shebang, you know? It's

5:38

why we drink, all the many reasons. And

5:40

so yeah, that usually encompasses true crime, paranormal,

5:42

you know, we throw in a few cryptids

5:45

and all sorts of fun stuff,

5:47

but yeah, it's a good time. And the best part is

5:49

we don't, neither of us know

5:51

each other's stories beforehand. So even though I host

5:54

a true crime show, I don't actually know

5:56

anything about true crime, unless Christine tells me

5:59

and vice versa. first with paranormal is I,

6:01

so not only are we teaching the audience, we're teaching each

6:03

other at the same time. And

6:06

by the way, good job. I think you made

6:08

the right choice. I think that title may have

6:10

made a little bit of a difference. I think

6:12

that's been very helpful. I think so. Yeah, I

6:14

think so. But the thing is, is that when

6:16

you've got a catchy title or catchy artwork or

6:18

whatever it is, you know, it

6:20

doesn't matter because that might get somebody to click

6:22

on it once. But unless they click on something

6:25

they really enjoy, they find that adds value to

6:27

their life, adds fun to their life, adds

6:30

some scariness to their life, they're

6:32

not going to click a second time. So it's not

6:34

just the name, but I think that name, you

6:36

know, really, you know, kind of gave,

6:39

we're looking at this, but we're bringing a

6:41

little bit of lightheartedness to it where it's

6:44

appropriate. And I will ask

6:46

you this, what do you, I mean, let's

6:48

face it, there are a million paranormal Andrew

6:50

crime podcasts these days. Why

6:53

do you think your guys' version

6:55

of it is so successful? What do you think

6:57

the secret sauce is? I

7:00

think, oh, Christine's acting like she doesn't know. I have

7:02

no idea. I

7:05

think I know, but I'll tell you, I'll tell

7:07

you after you tell me. Well,

7:10

my, my take on it is that I

7:12

do think we really hit the

7:14

sweet spot. We like jumped on right before

7:17

podcasting was kind of all over the place. So

7:19

we definitely got on right in the sweet spot

7:21

right before true crime podcasting took, you know,

7:23

the world by storm. But also

7:26

because the two of us truly

7:28

were barely friends when we started the podcast.

7:31

I mean, we knew each other closely for about maybe

7:33

two months, and then we decided to do a podcast

7:35

together and just hope for the best. So I think

7:38

if you started episode one, you get to listen to

7:40

us become friends. So anyone who listens along feels like

7:42

they're learning about us at the same rate that we're

7:45

learning about each other. So I

7:47

think it really, I don't know,

7:49

creates this, this space where people feel like

7:51

they really do know us. I think

7:54

I want to hear what Jim

7:56

has to say. but

8:00

I agree with Em so far because I live in denial.

8:03

I just feel like we're winging it all the time,

8:06

but yeah, I guess we're doing something right. I

8:09

would say it's you guys

8:11

and your chemical reaction in

8:13

terms of you guys working

8:16

together. I

8:19

think it's just something unique about the mix

8:21

of both of you together that just clicks

8:23

and it just works. Thank

8:25

you. The thing is that why is,

8:28

if you look at great entertainers, why

8:31

is Taylor Swift as popular as she

8:33

is? Why was Elvis or the Beatles

8:35

as popular as they

8:37

were? It's something you can't really quantify. It's

8:40

a certain it factor and I think together

8:42

you guys, and that's saying that you don't

8:44

have it separately, but I think together you

8:47

have this it factor that just works.

8:50

I think it were Taylor Swift. Yeah, yeah.

8:52

We're going to take that. I think Taylor

8:54

Swift, Elvis and the Beatles all rolled into

8:56

one. I forgot my name. I'll tell my

8:58

mom. Yeah, we got to take that quote,

9:00

Eva, write that down and put that on

9:02

the back of the next book if we

9:04

write another one because I feel like that

9:06

testimonial is excellent and is worth publishing. There

9:08

you go. Very kind of you. Now,

9:11

let's get on to the book. Again,

9:14

it is a haunted road Atlas

9:16

next stop, more chilling and gruesome tales

9:18

from, and that's why we drink. Talk

9:20

about both books and a little bit maybe

9:22

about what this new one is all about.

9:26

Well, our first book we wrote a couple

9:30

years ago and we were

9:32

obviously new to the world of publishing a

9:34

book and Emma and I had a

9:36

very serious talk because Emma very openly

9:38

is not a big fan of reading and

9:41

was like, you listen, it's going to feel very disingenuous

9:43

if I write a book and it's

9:46

going to look kind of phony or what have you. So we

9:48

had a lot of talks and we decided to

9:50

make a book that was kind

9:52

of a compromise of both of our interests

9:55

and it's, I think the way M described

9:57

it, how did you describe it? more

10:00

visual. Yeah, one of my

10:02

issues with reading Dry Tax

10:04

is I just get bored so quickly. I don't

10:06

have that solid of an attention span. And so

10:09

I kept telling Christine, if I'm going

10:11

to write a book, it has to be for

10:14

people who also have attention issues just like me.

10:16

And so all of our stories and anything we

10:18

put in there has to be bite sized and

10:20

it doesn't feel overwhelming. And you just you read

10:22

a page or two and it's interesting enough that

10:24

it makes you want to go listen to our

10:26

podcast to learn the real scoop. So that's right.

10:28

So yeah, it's a travel guide, but it's a

10:31

haunted travel guide. It's sort of inspired by the

10:33

idea of like Atlas Obscura, but then

10:35

in each more true crime and paranormal

10:37

focus. So in each chapter in

10:40

each city, we cover one

10:42

true crime story, one paranormal story, and

10:44

then we have lists of haunted hotels,

10:46

you know, best bars in town, ice

10:49

cream shops, and loves to do a

10:51

segment called WTF, you know, what like

10:53

just random off the wall off the

10:55

beaten path spots. And so

10:57

it's meant to be kind of a travel

10:59

guide, but you know, more coffee table style

11:01

travel guide, not necessarily, you know, something you

11:04

need to read front, you know, cover to

11:06

cover. And we have an illustrator, Jack, who

11:08

did a really great job. And yeah, we

11:10

wanted to be it to be as engaging

11:12

and interactive as possible. And visually,

11:14

I love how it ties in with the

11:16

artwork from the podcast. It's all

11:18

very, you know, with that that

11:20

font that you use that classic kind of

11:23

Ouija type font and just really nice a

11:25

nice visual package. You even have road trip

11:27

games in here, I see. Yes,

11:30

I was that was my my one big task.

11:32

And I was very excited about it. And a

11:34

lot of it was

11:36

meant to be, you know, the first book we

11:38

published during COVID, or at least we wrote it

11:40

during COVID. And so it was more of like,

11:43

what do you call it a

11:45

an aspirational book because nobody was

11:47

really traveling. But with

11:49

this book, especially now that people are out and

11:52

about and on the road again, we decided to

11:54

make it a little more leaning into the actual

11:56

travel aspect. So we have road trip games and,

11:59

you know, all up to date hotels

12:01

that are haunted. And

12:04

we put little blurbs about them and- Ghost

12:06

tours you can do on each other. All

12:08

sorts of stuff. And we also recommend haunted

12:10

bars you can pass through and all

12:12

sorts of stuff. Yeah, you have,

12:14

and by the way, I'm looking over

12:17

here at a second, very noisy computer,

12:19

stop doing that. Anyway, Northeast,

12:23

Northwest, Southeast, Midwest, Southwest. So I like

12:26

how you kind of equally treat every

12:28

sector of the US and you kind

12:30

of put in stories. And

12:33

I would love for you to share a story.

12:35

Do you have, you know, I'm

12:37

from the Midwest. I

12:40

know Christine is from the

12:43

Midwest. A

12:45

favorite Midwest story in this book, you could

12:47

share maybe a little bit about. Do

12:49

you have one, Christine? I do

12:51

not have my book next to me. So I can wing

12:54

it real good if you'd like, but if you have the

12:56

actual book next to you, I'd love it. I do have

12:58

the book next to me. I feel like

13:00

it was very hard for me to choose.

13:02

The first book, I think we were so

13:05

focused on covering as

13:08

much as we could that we originally pitched

13:10

to our publishers like 75 cities. And

13:13

they said, you're never, that's

13:15

gonna be like 11,000 page book. So

13:18

we had to really cut it down. And

13:20

we realized quickly we didn't wanna write an 11,000 page book.

13:24

And so for the second book, we did a lot

13:26

of like cities that we kind of had to nix

13:28

from the first list. So the first list, I think

13:30

we were like hyper focused. The second

13:33

book is a little more widespread. We even have

13:35

some towns that we've never been to. So that's

13:37

kind of fun because they're sort

13:39

of like, oh, if we tour there or,

13:41

you know, they're more, like I said, aspirational.

13:43

If we tour there, you know, we actually

13:45

get to go. I think Cleveland

13:47

was in our first book. So I don't

13:49

have Cleveland in here. Did you do torso?

13:52

Did you do torso murders in the first

13:54

book? I did, yes, yes. That was a

13:56

very easy choice, unfortunately, because as you know,

13:58

Jim, it's one of the... the big

14:00

ones. And I've told you before the

14:03

torso murders, literally the first torso

14:06

murder victim or maybe the second was

14:08

found at a place called Jackass Hill,

14:10

which was about five minutes from where

14:12

I grew up because I grew up

14:14

in a very kind of inner city

14:16

industrial area of Cleveland. Oh

14:18

my lord. So yeah, so it's like, I

14:20

know where that was at. A

14:22

little close to home, literally. And

14:25

then they suspected possibly a doctor

14:27

in the hospital where I was

14:29

born. Now I was born, I'm

14:31

old, but I'm not that old. I'm not like the

14:33

1935 or that's my dad. But

14:37

you know, in later decades, I was born

14:39

in that hospital. I think it was rebuilt,

14:41

but still, you know, it's kind of weird.

14:45

Yeah, kind of like a weird

14:47

cross. Synchronicity. I don't know. Synchronicities.

14:51

Yes. But yeah,

14:53

we have a lot of, I'm looking through here

14:55

now, we have like Billings, Montana. We've never been

14:57

there, but I, you know, the rest of the

15:00

cities, I think most of us have had some

15:02

experience in, but there were a couple kind of

15:04

out there ones that we got to do. But

15:06

I guess one of my favorites that I've covered

15:08

before on the podcast and decided to put into

15:11

the book was the Austin, Texas story, which was

15:13

the servant girl annihilator. And that's one that's unsolved.

15:16

And it's been linked to a

15:18

number of suspects over the

15:21

years. I mean, over the decades and

15:23

even Jack the Ripper. And

15:25

so, you know, that one was kind

15:28

of exciting to explore, partially because it's

15:30

so old that it feels slightly more

15:32

removed and like easier to

15:34

research without getting too

15:37

heavily emotional about it, that kind of thing. And

15:41

also because there were just so many theories out there. And

15:43

that one, that was one that I really had to work

15:45

on cutting down because again, our

15:47

publisher said this book cannot be 11,000 pages. Yeah.

15:51

And one of the hardest things about my

15:54

one request of making this bite size

15:56

is that if there's a very long

15:58

winded story, like. that deserves a really

16:01

meaty several pages of information. It

16:04

still has to be kind of shortened down to its bare

16:07

bones. So I do feel bad for

16:09

Christine that there was a lot of information that

16:11

probably got on the chopping block. You had such

16:13

a great idea, or I did, or whoever did,

16:15

I'll give you the credit to put the QR

16:17

codes in. That's a link to our episodes because

16:20

that was a great way to say, okay, well-

16:22

Very smart. Yeah, we weren't able to maybe cover

16:24

this as in depth as we would have wanted

16:26

to, but we've covered it on

16:28

the podcast before. So that's kind of a fun

16:30

little- That was my idea because I thought, if

16:33

you like what you're reading, if you like this little chunk and

16:35

you're on your road trip, you can listen to this in the

16:37

car on the way to that place. So I thought

16:41

that was, but now I'm thinking about

16:43

it's also murder. So it's touch and go the

16:45

way that we make decisions. So

16:48

Em, how much do you charge for brainstorming

16:50

sessions? I need to hire you for my

16:53

podcast. Don't give him any ideas. I'm

16:55

gonna get a bill. That's very sweet, but I

16:57

would, not enough. I would like Christine to give

16:59

me more money. Okay. Notice.

17:05

Nothing wrong with more money. What

17:08

makes a good story for either the book

17:10

or the podcast? What do you think the

17:12

components are of a good story, a good,

17:14

and that's why we drink story? That's

17:17

a good question. I think, well, Em recently

17:19

mentioned something. I only asked good questions. I

17:22

know, yeah, wow. We should probably stop clarifying.

17:24

Not really, not really, but go ahead. Yeah,

17:28

Em mentioned recently how much they

17:30

love the unsolved stories, but also

17:32

it's kind of a love-hate relationship,

17:34

right? Because it's unsolved, I

17:36

cover quite a few unsolved cases. And

17:39

Em always says, you know, it's

17:43

interesting and thought provoking to

17:45

listen to an unsolved and try to theorize

17:47

and listen to the different options. But

17:50

of course it's also frustrating because you would like some

17:52

closure and you don't get it. I

17:54

feel like they're more interactive instead of just sitting

17:57

and listening to a story. And there's definitely an

17:59

end in sight. at least with an unsolved

18:01

mystery, you can put your two cents in. And for

18:03

some reason, I always think like, I'm gonna crack the

18:05

case by the end of the episode. Have

18:07

you yet to do that for some reason, but someday? I

18:10

do, I also really like the stories that

18:12

are really fantastical. It's really hard to

18:15

come by those every now and then.

18:17

We've done 400 episodes almost now. And

18:20

my biggest concern all the time

18:22

is that the stories, at least on my end,

18:24

the paranormal stories always start to sound the same

18:26

because there's only so many times you can say

18:29

there were footsteps or there was knocking or there

18:31

were voices. Lady in white. There's always the lady

18:33

in white, the lady in red. And so anytime

18:36

I get like a really

18:38

good fantastical story is

18:41

a personal favorite because whenever

18:43

it's kind of outlandish or at least there's a lot of detail

18:45

to it and there's a story to follow, I always

18:48

like those the most. I will say one

18:50

of my favorite stories I've ever covered, which I

18:53

had learned about actually on Jim Harrold's podcast

18:55

and then on Astonishing Legends was

18:57

Black Eyed Kids. And when Em covered that

18:59

on our podcast, I thought I know everything

19:01

there is to know. Those are terrifying. Oh

19:03

my Lord, I slept

19:05

with all the lights on that night and we'd been doing the podcast

19:07

for a while at that point. So it is hard to kind of

19:09

really get to me, but I had

19:12

to close the blinds that day. I was

19:14

really freaked out. So yeah. Yeah, and then

19:16

by the way, shout out to Astonishing Legends.

19:18

They do a fantastic, they're the deep dive

19:20

experts. I mean, they just do a fantastic

19:23

job. They take a case and they like,

19:25

gah. It's like six hours per

19:27

episode, part one, part two. Yeah, I love it. They

19:29

do a fantastic job. We said something recently on our

19:31

podcast about them and it was like, if you want

19:33

to know every person's like blood type

19:36

or something, like just go listen to us. Yeah,

19:38

they know it. They've got it covered. Every element

19:40

they know. The

19:43

Paranormal Podcast is brought to you by

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Parabox Monthly. Every paranormal enthusiast

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will love Parabox Monthly. I know

19:50

that I do. Because

19:52

Parabox Monthly is a t-shirt subscription

19:54

box that delivers soft style paranormal

19:57

themed t-shirts to your home every

19:59

month. That

30:00

one's just currently on my mind, but I

30:02

remember thinking, how have I never heard of

30:04

this before? And it's one of those really

30:06

good ones where there's just like a full

30:08

story to follow. A lot of times it's,

30:11

you know, if you're covering like a hotel

30:13

or something like that, it's kind of a

30:15

combination of a bunch of different people's experiences,

30:17

but this is actually a story that has

30:19

like someone's full testimony on what happened. So

30:21

yeah, I'm really excited about that one. And

30:25

another thing I was thinking about the success of your

30:27

show, the marrying of paranormal and

30:29

true crime. I think that is so

30:31

genius what you both did, because

30:34

I think it's like a Venn diagram. I

30:37

think a lot of people, you know, they'll

30:39

watch Unsolved Mysteries and follow it up with

30:41

Dateline. You know, so I

30:43

mean Unsolved Mysteries were the paranormal things.

30:46

That's a good thing, yeah, no Unsolved Mysteries

30:49

is both. And that show, that was part

30:51

of the success of that show was that

30:53

combination, even though my understanding was the producers

30:55

weren't that crazy about the paranormal topics, but

30:57

they were always the biggest rating getters. So

31:00

they just said, well, hey, people like

31:02

it. Let's keep up on it. Yeah,

31:04

exactly. Now, go

31:06

ahead, Em, go ahead. I was gonna say, I

31:09

feel like you're totally right about the Venn diagram

31:11

thing. I feel like I've heard of people only

31:13

listening to our show for either my topic or

31:15

Christine's topic or both topics. And we really found

31:18

a good way to cover everything. Because I also,

31:20

not only do I not cover,

31:22

I only, let me say that again. Not

31:25

only do I cover ghosts, I cover

31:27

aliens, I cover cryptids,

31:29

so sometimes conspiracy theories. So there's something

31:31

for everyone. So I think we did really

31:33

do a good job of playing the

31:35

fields. Whoever, if you're interested, just come on

31:38

over. And I agree with you because one

31:40

of the things that's really annoying to me

31:42

is when people say, well, the paranormal, that

31:44

means ghosts. It's only ghosts. And it's like,

31:46

no, I'm old school, but

31:50

to me it was in search of

31:52

where you watched and one week they

31:54

have Bigfoot, the next week they'd have

31:56

UFOs, the next week they'd have ghosts,

31:58

then they would have the occasional. Jack

32:00

the Ripper episode. So

32:02

I kind of love that kind of eclectic

32:04

mix. And we tried to do this on

32:07

this show too. Go ahead. Emma's even covered

32:09

QAnon for some reason, did

32:11

a multi-part episodes on QAnon because it

32:14

was, well, A, timely, but also,

32:16

you know, kind of so off the wall that

32:18

it became very unsettling and

32:21

creepy in and of itself. I used to

32:23

do more of a

32:26

historical conspiracy show for

32:28

my Plus Club. And I stopped doing

32:30

it because conspiracy took a really kind

32:32

of dark turn. Yeah, it's like a

32:34

hairy place to step foot in now.

32:36

So I'm like, I was more interested

32:40

in like the historical mysteries. You know,

32:42

some people think that Lincoln, there was

32:44

a conspiracy to assassinate Lincoln or JFK.

32:46

I go as recently as the JFK

32:49

situation because I definitely think that was

32:51

a conspiracy. But I

32:53

stopped doing it simply because it got

32:55

just a little too dark, a little

32:57

too weird. And relevant

33:00

nowadays, which is like upsetting. I

33:02

also feel like people probably

33:04

were writing in, giving you opinions

33:06

about how it was

33:08

true. Like, I mean, were people coming

33:11

in and like. Not too much, but

33:13

it was just getting too close. I

33:15

personally stay out of politics and

33:17

it was getting a little too current,

33:19

eventsy for me. And I didn't want to

33:22

get into that because I wanted to keep

33:24

these topics open for everybody and

33:26

they said, we're going to step away from that one.

33:29

Now, I want to go back

33:31

to the popularity of, and I'll

33:33

ask it for both and you

33:35

guys can just time in. Why

33:38

do you think true crime and

33:41

the paranormal, why do you think people

33:43

find those topics so compelling? I

33:47

mean, I'll at least speak to the true crime

33:49

aspect. I've thought about this a lot and

33:51

I've gotten this question a few times and it's always

33:54

kind of evolving in my mind. But I think a

33:57

major reason people are drawn to true

33:59

crime, especially. women, which we

34:01

have noticed our demographics are

34:03

heavily skewed female. Um,

34:06

and we don't know, you know, if that's just

34:08

our personas or if that's the topics, but women

34:11

especially seem to be drawn to true crime. And I

34:13

think, uh, to the point that it's become almost like

34:15

a joke now, like a meme, you know, like, oh,

34:17

my wife listens to your podcast.

34:19

Um, but I think

34:22

a big part of it is just kind of, uh,

34:25

reclaiming some sort of

34:27

ownership of ourselves or,

34:29

you know, I don't know

34:31

the right phrasing for it, but almost,

34:33

um, has women are often the

34:36

more vulnerable folks in that field and

34:38

are more, you know, often targeted

34:41

and historically at least much more, uh, affected

34:43

by true crime. I think there is an

34:45

element of kind of learning as much as

34:47

you can about it, leaning into it, um,

34:50

almost like understanding it so that you feel

34:52

you have a little bit of agency or

34:54

control. At least that's my experience with it.

34:57

Um, and kind of trying to understand who

35:00

could, you know, do something

35:02

like this, trying to understand the mind of somebody who

35:04

could harm somebody else and really, um, just

35:06

kind of getting a better grasp on it.

35:09

That's, that's my experience. And that's, you know,

35:11

from, from women I've spoken to. Um,

35:13

so I don't know, but I think, um, for

35:16

paranormal, I think it's probably a more

35:18

lighthearted reason. I don't know. I mean,

35:21

my, my guess is, yeah, my

35:23

guess is just because in, in the last,

35:26

I would say I would go as

35:28

far as saying decade, but in the last

35:30

few years, at least, I feel like there's

35:32

been this resurgence in spiritualism and, uh, people

35:35

practicing witchcraft and people becoming more in

35:37

tune with that kind of stuff or

35:39

interested in even just like tarot and

35:42

astrology. I, so I feel like all

35:44

that together kind of just leans into

35:46

the spookiness and people have even the

35:48

Halloween, like the new, like the kind

35:50

of increase obsession with Halloween. Yeah. Yeah.

35:53

I think it just kind of falls

35:55

into the mind. I mean, Halloween is

35:57

like, I mean, it's pretty much a

35:59

number two to. to Christmas at this point. I

36:01

think so. I think

36:03

it's, I would argue it's getting,

36:05

it's equaling Christmas these days. It's

36:07

getting there. It's very big, it's

36:09

very big. And I

36:11

mean, we're recording this August 22nd

36:14

and the stores are full of Halloween stuff. Oh, I went

36:16

to the pumpkins everywhere. They have been

36:18

for weeks. For weeks. Yeah. That's

36:20

kind of exciting. I'm so excited. It's kind of

36:22

fun. It is excellent. I

36:25

was just at, this week we were

36:27

at a local craft store and we ran

36:29

into a listener. It was

36:31

amazing. Oh, no way. It was amazing. Yeah.

36:35

It was like, is that you? And it's

36:37

like, Did you both have shopping carts of

36:39

like little skeletons and stuff? Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

36:41

Exactly. So, I

36:44

mean, I think at this point, the thing for

36:46

people to do, if for some reason they haven't

36:48

is check out the podcast and also check

36:51

out the book, A Haunted Road

36:53

Atlas Next Stop, more chilling and

36:55

gruesome tales from, and that's why

36:57

we drink. And where

36:59

could people do such a

37:01

thing? Oh

37:03

yeah. We can, go ahead. Christine,

37:06

go for it. Go for it

37:08

Christine. You can find our podcast

37:11

anywhere you listen to Jim Harrell's wonderful podcast.

37:14

And if you want to follow us on

37:16

social media, we are at ATWWD podcast. You

37:19

can buy our book anywhere. Find books are

37:21

sold. We do sell them on Amazon. We

37:24

like to encourage people to shop local

37:27

if they're able, but

37:29

they're on Amazon, they're at Barnes and Noble. I'll

37:31

find book resellers. We just recorded our

37:33

audio book version. So that'll be out there

37:35

too, for folks who prefer to listen

37:37

to their books. And

37:40

yeah, I think that about covers it. Yeah.

37:43

All right. Well, I think everybody should

37:46

definitely get this book. Perfect timing for

37:48

Halloween. And I thank you

37:50

both for spending some time with us

37:52

today on the paranormal podcast and continued

37:55

success and everything that you do. Thank

37:58

you, Jim. This feels like a fever. really,

38:00

we were saying this is so surreal. It's

38:03

very special. We're going to talk about it as soon

38:05

as we're not near you. We're going to fan girl

38:07

scream. Sad joke. No. Never. No.

38:11

Thank you so much, guys. I appreciate

38:13

it. And again, well done across the

38:15

board. Thanks, Jim. Thanks, Jim. And

38:19

thank you for tuning in. I appreciate it.

38:21

If you like to see guests like

38:24

we had today, great guests. Make sure

38:26

that you subscribe, whether in audio form

38:28

or on YouTube. We thank

38:30

you so much. We'll talk to you

38:33

next time. Have a great week, everybody.

38:35

And stay spooky. Bye bye. My

38:45

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